Re: There is no childhood's end - Foreword

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:40:51 +0200
Newsgroups: alt.dreams.castaneda
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Hi Jeremy,
The beautiful poem is from the movie, it is a pity but it is not my
diary. I wish it were mine, it is so nice. At the end of the treatise I
will tell you the name of the film (you might have seen it) and you
can send the authors a critical email. Actually, I will be very
interested in their reply :)
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Jeremy wrote:
> > Ann wrote:
> > When the child was a child,
> > It was the time for these questions:
> > Why am I me, and why not you?
> Having helped in the raising of five different children in my life,
> having been one myself, and having had a sibling two years younger
> than myself, all I can say is: children don't ask that question.
> Children simply accept being themselves.
Perhaps your were in a joking mood. You expected me to answer and it is
a matter of un-stalking principle that I do. Mainly, because I have a
sensitive soul. You use twice the word "children don't ask", which I
"don't" like. I told you in the "Subject:" of the post that I am still
a child, and you are in effect telling me 'don't dare to question the
truth!'. The impression from the words is important, the soul gets it:)
It may be the truth (this "don't") from your experience, it is
possible. We see what we would like to see, we remember what we would
like to remember, we hear what we would like to hear.
Think of it, what kind of (suggestive:) statement this is: "children don't ask that question"
Of course, they do. Children are notoriously curious, even more than
Einstein. 'Unfortunately' they ask all sorts of stupid and
unreasonable questions. There is no big logic in their questions, they
combine the words in them as they wish. And ask and ask questions.
Which are so difficult to answer that we can only laugh. For otherwise,
we have to cry :)
I have no idea why they didn't ask you. Maybe the children around you
were afraid asking, but it doesn't mean they haven't asked themselves.
That you "don't" know. To wait for a proof from me is a sheer waste of
time. Since I am rather wise (a sage) I know that people change, we are
never the same (Carlos said it and I trust him on that. And I also
checked it on myself). Therefore, one day you may remember those early
days when you learned for the first time the words 'me', 'I', 'here',
'you', 'there'. And all the other words from the song of childhood.
Your other statement is also correct, in fact all of your statements are
true from a certain point of view - your point of view. They are private
truths. "Children simply accept being themselves."
Meaning "All children" or "Some children", "simply accept" or "hardly
accept"?
Yes, we do it sooner or later, we decide to become serious adults.
Apart from some clinical cases. Did you forget that some 'insane'
children never accept themselves? Come on, this is psychology, a
science :) Have you never heard of personal identity problems? Don't
you know of such 'mental diseases'?
If some children (what about adults:) do not accept themselves that easily
it will follow that your opinion is not universally valid. Though :) the
impression from your words is just the 'right' one, you are a master. Here
is a nasty exercise: try to remember your "simple acceptance of yourself",
"I do not ask for much" (Chris is a genius, isn't he:).
The word "simply" in the above wisdom is simply misplaced. The
"acceptance" looks simple from your point of view, for a child it is not
simple, it can be a fight, actually. A battle between the soul and the
Word, or later soul versus reason. "To be or not to be?", that is the
Shakespearean fixing question. When the child finally says the "simple"
'Yes, I am!' the angel has fallen. And it did in the movie.
The first acquaintance with any word raises exactly those questions from
the song of childhood. Every word, 'I', 'here', 'there', 'good', 'bad',
'time', 'space', 'light', 'energy' shocks our soul, no matter how 'good'
it seems to us now. Even the 'best' words may cause us trouble the first
time, for example they gave my soul the cold shiver. When I later learned
that they were the good of 'good' I started to love them. It is not clear
whether I am going to defend them at all cost, though.
The most fundamental bricks of the matrix come in word-pairs, that is
the only way our parents can define them and cause bifurcation. When we
ask 'what is I?' their reply usually is 'you and I, you are you and not
me', 'here is here and not over there', 'the tree there is not you'.
The child asks 'Why not?'
The child (movie maker) remembered how the world looked like without the
spectacles of reason, it couldn't separate anything from anything else.
I devoted many words on the fixing questions 'me or other', 'here or
there', 'light or darkness', 'Jesus or Judas'. That is how adults
educate children, the adult matrix slowly becomes theirs. Little Ann
had to abandon her world of dancing rainbows, her father imposed on her
the contours of consensus reality. He did it with authoritative words.
Ann accepted the adult point of view as one and only reality and
promised herself never to forget it. And started talking to herself.
The noise of the internal dialogue still keeps her reasonable world.
Memory was born, we seem to need a container for the words from the
inner dialogue.
That I remembered. The fact that at least two other people (director
and author of screenplay) remembered it too is encouraging. Yes, they
remembered not only the first word-pairs and fixing questions but also
the inner dialogues. The angels could hear how the reasonable adults
silently talk to themselves. I mean, at least I know I am not the only
delusional philosopher. If someone else remembers as well that'll be it
:)
Preferably a scientist or another director, not a "con" like Carlos :)
> > Why am I here, and why not there?
> > When did time begin, and where does space end?
> Until considerably older, children don't ask questions like these
> either. A young child accepts being HERE ... NOW. "children don't ask questions"
(smile) If the Master says so then it must be so. But why don't you try
to remember. You make again a stalkingly valid statement: "A young
child accepts being HERE ... NOW". But how? Does it happen naturally
and easy? How do we know? The authors of the movie remembered that it
wasn't that easy, or at least not without the relevant questions
(children defend themselves). It is your turn now to remember and prove
them wrong.
Your first point is also absolutely correct: "Until considerably older,
children don't ask questions like these either."
However :) did I ever mention how old the children from the song are?
I didn't and the original authors also didn't, it was not an issue in
my post or the song (not even the film). And how old is exactly
"considerably older"? Be precise, tell me the number.
Sometimes I remember things that are difficult to position on the arrow
of time but I try as hard as I could to place them in some interval
(for example, my mother helped me for the word 'walk'). In general
children are not identical, different parents start introducing the
matrix with different words. I learnt first the words 'tree', 'me',
'there', while other children may learn them "considerably" later. This
was the cheap or un-stalking part, now I can answer you with a deep
shot, because you touch on a very interesting subject.
Some questions we ask only when we get "considerably older". There is
no precise or average threshold, but we can term it metaphorically as
the moment of accepting the word 'reason'. Or 'rationality' or
'seriousness' if you like. We choose to grow up and become earnest
adults. After that we may start asking complex questions, but we are
also susceptible to the 'carrot and stick' strategy of the adults. We
cannot dodge bullets any longer for we now know and "see the line
that's drawn between good and bad". That way we may swallow quite a
number of 'real' words, like 'infinity', 'evolution', 'highest animal'.
>
> > Is life under the sun not just a dream?
> > Is what I see and hear and smell
> > not just an illusion of a world before the world?
>
> Again, those are questions much older children and adults ask.
> Young children very quickly learn the difference between sleep and
> waking, and between nightly dreams and the real daily world.
How young are "young children" and how old are "older children"?
Are you absolutely convinced that "young children" see "the real daily
world" as you see it, I mean exactly like you do? Do you read fairy
tales? Do you like reading fairy tales? Do you believe in fairy tales,
Pipi, Harry Potter?
Well, many children do.
Indeed :) they gradually "learn the difference", they eventually learn
everything we want them 'to know'. Note, we do not ask them to think,
we 'just' tell them and they learn (and parrot). It is obvious that
MOST of them learn, the social laws of consensus reality are cruel.
And if you have read my letter to the end you would have noticed that I
do not object that children learn, I didn't even discuss it.
Didn't you like the poetry I quoted from that movie, to me it is a
beautiful music of words. Ask yourself, why did you feel the need to
attack that innocent song of childhood?
It was not even mine :)
> In my experience...
Now you are honest, I like that disclaimer. I also insert it in my
chronicles (like the tobacco companies:), because I know that there is
no single universal point of view on reality, what is real for you and
me was unreal for the classic Greeks, for example. Take the "irrational
numbers", the 'combat helicopter' or the 'a-bomb' :)
Were the ancient Greeks unlucky? Are we happier now?
Best,
Ann