Re: Dion's singing

Date: 15 Jul 2003 21:07:58 -0700
Newsgroups: rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s
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email-address-deleted wrote in message news:<email-address-deleted>...
> On 15 Jul 2003 00:15:48 -0700, email-address-deleted
> (Scarlotti) wrote:
>
> >email-address-deleted wrote in message news:<email-address-deleted>...
> >
> >> Well you think wrong since he detested his father. Comparing him to
> >> Eddie Fisher was the ultimate put down. I'd suggest that you read his
> >> autobiography The Wanderer: Dion's Story. BTW Dion wasn't influenced
> >> by Pop singers, but by Hank Williams.
> >>
> >> dkp
> >
> >
> >Could be... could be... (he does cite Hank Williams on his Official
> >site).
>
> That's no could be. It's a fact. Do you even take the time to read
> what you respond too?
Yes I do.
Dion liked Hank Williams' BE CAREFUL OF STONES... and probably other
songs as well.
But Dion (Praise to the powers that be!) sounds nothing like Hank
Williams.
I wouldn't call Hank an "influence" as his music and Dion's sound
nothing alike.
But, yes, Dion obviously was a fan. He mentions it on his website and
it's mentioned in the liner notes of one of my Dion albums. In short,
it's common knowledge that Dion liked Hank's music.
> >But consider this:
> >
> >"(Dion) began singing at the age of five picking up the guitar a few
> >years later. His father introduced him to Pal Whitman, a 1920s
> >bandleader. By the 1950s, Whitman was best known for discovering and
> >promoting young talent. At about twelve Dion began appearing with
> >Whitman on radio and television programs along the East Coast,
> >including Whitman's own Teen Club."
> >(http://www.history-of-rock.com/dion_dimucci.htm)
>
> Scarlotti have you forgotten already whose site the above is? Anyways
> it appears I left out a comma. It should read : At about twelve Dion
> began appearing with Whitman, on radio and television programs along
> the East Coast, including Whitman's own Teen Club."
Nope -- I haven't forgotten. I make it a habit to check the HISTORY
OF R&R site when responding to your posts -- that's where I usuall
find the best passages for refuting you.
> >From the age of 12 on, Dion was to-all-intents-and-purposes under the
> >tutelage of PAUL WHITEMAN. Sounds like basis for a hefty dose or 20
> >of Pop Music during his formative years.
>
> Really? He appears a few times and all of a sudden he is under the
> tutelage of Whitman. That being the case why is Whitman only mentioned
> once in his auto-biograpy The Wander: Dion's Story? The fact is that
> the reason he split with the Belmonts is he hated singing Pop
> standards such as When or Where along with doing them in his nightclub
> act. He wanted to sing R&B/Rock and Roll. Using your logic Frankie
> Avalon must have been under Whitman's tutelage too. BTW there is only
> one mention of Whitman in his auto-biography. Not much for one that
> you claimed was so influential.
Whitman constituted the first professional appearance of a 12-year old
Dion. An event like that has got to leave its marks.
Dion also supposedly hated A TEENAGER IN LOVE which he thought sounded
"faggy," and which is a Pop Rock song, not a Doo-wopped standard.
Look, I agree that Dion is primarily a Rock and Roll artist -- I
consider him to be THE R'n'R artist. And, like R'n'R itself, I hear
distinct R&B, Country and Pop elements in his songs. Fittingly, IMHO.
> >And consider this:
> >
> >"Dion is unique because of his music and his voice. They are both
> >hybrids of all his influences and his own experiences and can't be
> >categorized other than to say they are Dion's music and Dion's voice.
> >Instead of sounding like HANK WILLIAMS, Red Pryscok, R&B vocal groups,
> >Chuck Berry, Elvis, Robert Johnson, Lightning Hopkins, Muddy Waters,
> >Fred Neil, etc., he sounds like Dion, and no one else sounds like
> >him." (http://members.lycos.co.uk/steveislip/index.html)
>
> No Pop singers in there.
No. But it's a list of singers Dion DOESN'T sound like. ;)
> >Caps mine.
> >
> >But, of course, it's cool, today, to cite Hank Williams whereas it's
> >uncool, today, to cite Eddie Fisher. Dion is a working musician, and
> >you've got to expect him (to some extent) to say the things his
> >audiences are going to respond to.
>
> He said this 15+ years ago in his auto-biography The Wanderer: Dion's
> Story.
Yeah, like Eddie Fisher was considered to be cool in 1985!
> >His RUNAROUND SUE album, from the early 60s, notes that "His Rock and
> >Roll fans may be surprised to learn that Dion has a growing reputation
> >as a nightclub singer. He has received rave reviews in New York and
> >Washington, for instance."
>
> Dion detested his nightclub act. Source - The Wanderer: Dion's Story.
I'm sure he did. But the fact remains that Dion did do a nightclub
act. Just as Dion did cut Doo-wop versions of 30s standards with the
Belmonts (which he also hated), and he did teen idol pop rock like
TEENAGER IN LOVE (which he also hated), and he is said to have hated
his whole teen idol image too, and while he cut his share of solo
standards on his ALONE WITH DION album, I wouldn't be surprised if he
hated those as well.
But the fact remains that we're talking about a hefty chunk of Dion's
output here.
At best, Dion can claim that he never liked Pop music (he came of age
in the late 50s, after all, after R'n'R had already established
itself). But when a sizeable portion of his career includes
reworkings of Pop Standards, their "influence" upon his output becomes
a given.
> >
> >Obviously, he was being promoted differently when times and tastes
> >were different as well.
> >
> >The liner notes on PRESENTING DION AND THE BELMONTS claim that they
> >all enjoy Classical Music (but don't mention Hank Williams).
>
> Who said anything about the Belmonts liking Hank Williams?
No one on PRESENTING's liner notes. The thing is that no one
mentioned Dion liking him there either. I'm not trying to show that
Dion didn't like Hank -- we both know that he does. I'm only trying
to show that marketing plays a role in any information that is
released by a singer (or his pr people) to the general public.
> >The WISH UPON A STAR album (w/Belmonts) is comprised of Doo-wop
> >renditions of Popular Standards from way back when), and ALONE WITH
> >DION contains quite a few Standards featuring Dion solo.
>
> The reason he left the Belmonts was because he didn't want to sing Pop
> standards. Source - The Wanderer: Dion's Story
No argument. But if his work with the Belmonts focused on 30s
standards, then 30s standards played a major role in his work with the
Belmonts. Regardless of Dion's feelings towards them.
> >How many Hank Williams songs did he do? BE CAREFUL OF STONES THAT YOU
> >THROW is the only one that comes to mind -- and not exactly
> >immediately either.
> >
> >But I'll take Dion's word that he liked Hank.
>
> Do you have any other choice?
No. I'm saying that I'll agree that Dion LIKED Hank's music. But
liking someone and being directly influenced by them are two different
things.
(Hank also wrote many of the biggest Pop Standards of the early 50s.)
> >I'll just maintain that he's at least equally influenced by Pop.
>
> Pop had zilch, zero, nada influence. To say otherwise contradicts what
> Dion says.
Again -- Dion's music, in many instances (see above) IS comprised of
Pop Standards. If he sang Pop, then (at least insofar as those
records go) he is Pop.
When he sang Rock and Roll, he out-rocked them all. But he only
really sang R'n'R for the first few years of the 60s -- and from his
mid-80s comeback on(though not with the same level of success).
But if you say he claimed to have hated Eddie Fisher's music in his
autobio, I'll take your word.
However, if he is claiming that Fisher sang off-key (I took the quote
to mean that his father sang off-key -- like Fisher), well ... no
disrespect to Dion, but when it comes to the subject of Eddie Fisher,
he just doesn't know what he's talking about.